Part two of an interview with: Ren

I really enjoyed parts were you illustrated the spectrum of gender through music. I actually never saw it expressed that way. How did that Eureka moment come for you?


I was trying to think of all kinds of ways to try and explain the sort of intersectionality of gender and sexuality, because I think they are overlapping and related categories. I think that they’re not the same thing, but they are connected to each other. The easiest example of that is how do you define someone as homosexual or heterosexual if they’re non-binary? In gender, that gets really complicated to answer because without a stable binary gender you can’t say whether someone else’s gender is the same or different. Unless you’re saying the same equals also non-binary and different equals binary. We’re just not trained to think that way. We’re trained to think of everything as being an on or off system rather than a spectrum system. So I had all kinds of other things that I tried before I got to the music thing, but I don’t know. Something just clicked for me when I was like “Ah, we’re all on the Kinsey scale! It’s called a scale.” And I was raised with music, and learned to play instruments as a kid and still can somewhat. And I was like, “Oh, that kind of makes sense.” The only part that was difficutlt after that was figuring out which end of the scale was homosexual, which end of the scale was heterosexual. Like, ‘I wonder if this is going to be...I might be playing a little bit with a stereotype here going up for the homosexuality or whatever, and then all those other little scales as well.’ All those scales tend to come out of our latest, sort of, diagram of the genderbread person. Which, anyone can google. I think it’s on And you can just google genderbread and see a lot of the different images that I use as little felt cutouts, which is an homage that I use to my Sunday school days when we used to learn all of our lessons about stories and the way the world works with felt cutouts on a feltboard. So I made these felt cutouts for the show for all of these different parts of our expression, and who we are in terms of gender and sexuality. I dunno, it was the one that worked. I had other ideas and that was the one that worked and clicked for enough people. I even have on my website (or it might be on my facebook page) a copy of the page where people can figure out their own cord, and they can figure out who they are musically for any individual day and draw it out on a little scale and then play it out at home. If they want to or something. Just for fun. Just for fun.


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